r/PublicFreakout
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u/CuriousExpediency44
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Jul 05 '22
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Here's the deal: "Show me your ID or go to jail" Repost š
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u/lp435 Jul 05 '22
Any info on the outcome?
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u/Krakhen69 Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 06 '22 •
https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html
Edit: Thank you for the gold dear random stranger!
It seems for some people the link doesn't work, but it does still work for me atleast. There are some updates links in the comment chain that might work for you if not.
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u/BlizzardStorm8 Jul 05 '22 •
Anyone else read at the end there that they put him in a cell prior to booking him and stripped him to his underwear then made him wait lying on the cold cell floor?
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u/Emotional_Note497 Jul 05 '22
I was sentenced to a 366 which was overturned after 8 months. Still did the time, and yes CO'S can be worse than cops. Disrespect, or as we like to say "fuck around and find out". They will let you get murdered in there if they don't like you.
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u/HungrySummer Jul 05 '22
COās are 1000% worse than cops
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u/NavyCMan Jul 05 '22
Yup. I was one for a short time till I couldn't stomach it anymore. They train you to treat inmate as non human.
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u/Gorbish Jul 05 '22
I think that depends on the state. The prison I just trained with repeatedly told us to respect inmates and treat them like what they are. People. This was in Kentucky.
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u/wow_im_white Jul 05 '22
The fact that this depends on the state whether or not you're treated like a human speaks volumes
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u/enochianKitty Jul 05 '22
If you look at States as being like Nation states or countries it makes more sense. At the time of the war of independence they Essentially where seperate countries banding together in a union to fight the British. The States individual powers had to be preserved to get them to agree to join and thats why states rights was such a big thing throughout the United States history. So much of it makes sense if you loook at the US as being like The EU and the states as member states.
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u/Leather-Future7435 Jul 05 '22
'Worse than cops'
That's an impressive feat
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u/dexmonic Jul 05 '22
Imagine a police officer with even less training and education than the average police officer, who has almost zero oversight and near unlimited authority over inmates. That's why they are worse than cops.
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u/Lady_von_Stinkbeaver Jul 05 '22
I remember a soldier talking about the scandal at Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq where the U.S. Army guards were torturing prisoners.
"You want to know what a Corrections Specialist is? Imagine someone too dumb to be an MP....which are usually guys too dumb to be infantry."
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u/ace_urban Jul 05 '22
I need someone to explain to me how this is remotely legal.
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u/AnalogiPod Jul 05 '22 •
"We investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing"
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u/Dyrogitory Jul 06 '22
Thatās what Ken Paxton (AG for TX) did, I think it may work. Next weāll stay in office by not conceding. Oh, weāre doing that too.
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u/Empatheater Jul 05 '22 •
in america cops are not held accountable for their actions. they are not our best or brightest but rather the sort of person who wants to boss people around. they are often racist and small-minded.
i cannot emphasize enough that police forces are made up of that sort of person and then NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE. tax dollars are spent to pay for their fuck ups and to keep them out of trouble. this is the system that America has set up for itself.
nothing will change until bad cops get in trouble. it's weirdly similar to our political situation, and financial situation. If people who wear suits were treated the same in our justice system as young black men the entire world would be a better place. also, in that better world, my analogy would stop making sense because young black men would be treated better.
until and unless we start holding people accountable - even people with money and especially people with power - we will keep seeing more of this.
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u/toxicdudio Jul 05 '22
You got to be joking. That is inhumane.
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u/FacelessFellow Jul 05 '22
Bro, they make you shower in front of an officer then the officer asks you to show your butthole and cough.
I was arrested for unpaid traffics tickets that I had forgotten about. They made me show my naked anus to a stranger in case I was smuggling things in?!
You know the crazy part? My cell mate was high on meth when I came in. He said that someone brought it in and shared. So obviously I showed my anus for nothing!
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u/rad_bone Jul 05 '22 •
When this happened to me when I was 18 years old, I looked the officer dead in the eyes as I spread my cheeks and asked if he enjoyed his job. He replied that I will never get a good job with an arrest on my record, as he was currently looking into a teenagers asshole for drugs.
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u/alkla1 Jul 05 '22 •
I look at assholes everyday, they donāt even have to bend over.
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u/Ericaonelove Jul 05 '22
I got arrested for having too dark of tint on my car that I didnāt pay. They handcuffed me in front of my 3 kids, took me to jail, and I told them I was on my period, and needed to use the bathroom. They told me to go in the toilet in front of all of them, all the dude cops plus the men they put me in with. For a tint ticket.
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u/captAWESome1982 Jul 05 '22
What the fuck. Iām so sorry that happened to you.
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u/D35P153 Jul 05 '22
FYI for future tint tickets. You can pay a higher fine to leave the tint on. If you add the cost of removing the tint (if you can't do it yourself), paying the original fine, putting the tint back on (let's face it we're all gonna re-tint the windows) then paying the fine to not comply with the fix it ticket is way cheaper. It's been awhile but in CA I think I remember paying $100 to just leave it on. As for humiliating you by making you use the bathroom in front of male officers you should look into a human rights lawyer. A female officer needs to be present in that situation.
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u/Ericaonelove Jul 05 '22
UTAH is super strict about tint. This was also a long time ago. I definitely had my human rights violated, though.
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u/shwiftyname Jul 05 '22
o7 *
Juvenile officer shading his eyes to get a better look at your butthole . . . for freedom.
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u/induslol Jul 05 '22
Cops in a nutshell. It's not about making a community safer, or law and order, it's just a mess of vindictive little failures hoping to inflict their bullshit on others.
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u/Hidland2 Jul 05 '22
There was an officer doing an AMA. He was very polite and courteous but he made a passing statement about "having to deal with baseless hatred." Assuming he was a good cop, he was wilfully ignorant.
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u/April_Fabb Jul 05 '22
Apart from all of this being fucked up, that last sentence made me giggle.
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u/Youngerthandumb Jul 05 '22
I wen to jail once overnight for failure to pay a ticket (no dog license for my dog, no I'm not kidding). Shower in front of a cop, get sprayed by de-licer, lifted up my nuts to make sure I wasn't hiding anything. Then there's a holding area where people wait before you go to a cell.
Homeless looking dude in there was rolling a cigarette. My bro had hooped 3 butts, a rolling paper, and some matches and they didn't find it. I'll never forget that. I'll also never forget getting thrown in jail for a dog fine.
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u/majones118 Jul 05 '22
My 'arrest' came for an interfering with police investigation. What for? My brother had a party and we didn't let the cops in. They broke into our house and served an arrest letter to me a week later. I wasn't handcuffed or anything, just had to show up to the station for printing, mugshot, and court date. I don't get why they treat people like shit for a failed fucking ticket...
If anyone is curious, the judge threw out my case because the report clearly showed the police broke in.
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u/jollyreaper2112 Jul 05 '22
So obviously I showed my anus for nothing!
Cop filed that away in the ol' spank bank so it wasn't for nothing.
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u/idiot437 Jul 05 '22
you showed your anus for freedom sir and we all salute your freedom anus
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u/ttaptt Jul 05 '22
Remember when they threw a mentally ill man (black) in a scalding shower for 20 minutes and melted all his skin off with 3rd degree burns and he died? Fucking assholes. God, now I'm starting myy day mad.
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u/brightfoot Jul 05 '22
Darren Rainey.
From the Wikipedia article: "Rainey was locked in a shower for two hours. It was designed so that he had no control over the temperature of the 160 Ā°F (71 Ā°C) water"
What. The. Fuck. Most residential water heaters don't even LET you dial the temperature that high because it can cause 3rd degree burns in less than a second.
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u/grnrngr Jul 05 '22
You mean you don't believe that, according to the official autopsy, he didn't have any burns at all? She attributed the skin that was boiled and falling off in the jail to be the natural effects of decomposition.
You read that right: the coroner said the guy was dead for less than an hour when he decomposed to such an extent that his skin was already falling off the bone.
She was so sure of her conclusion that she only took one skin sample, won't say from where (the burned part or not), and the prison urged the victim's family to cremate immediately.
All above board here. Totally.
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u/UniqueFlavors Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
Oh boy. I wasn't there for that one but I read about it. There was a lot of fucked up shit that went on there. That dude used to get body slammed all the time. He stole a golf cart butt ass naked once too. I had been in that exact shower before. I knew that dude. He was harmless and hilarious.
Edit. I did not know Darren Rainey. My mistake I was talking about another guy. I knew Mark Joiner though. Fun fact John Meese was at that camp too. They made a movie about him
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u/lolalaughed Jul 05 '22
I was arrested for driving with a suspended and taken to jail. There they gave those with a felon charge a more thorough check and those with a misdemeanor got checked but with their clothes on
The cop made me go to the section to get undressed even though k had a misdemeanor. She made me get naked while I kept saying I was in the wrong area. She then proceeded to sexually assault me. Then told me to get dressed she made an error i was in the wrong area. Her partner was there and didnāt say anything while this asshole assaulted me.
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u/ffllores Jul 05 '22
I would have shit all over the floor. Pissed too. If they want to treat me like an animal, I will be one.
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u/FacelessFellow Jul 05 '22
They hurt a couple of black guys for standing, so I wasnāt gonna rock the boat. Iām Mexican.
The white guy who was yelling at the officers? He got gingerly escorted to a private cell and told to quiet down. He then started kicking at the door, and they just asked him to stop. Nobody hurt that white guy. Even though he was the most dangerous/belligerent guy in the holding cell.
That was like the realist racism moment I had ever witnessed. (Iām Mexican but I have light skin)
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u/Ireallydontlikereddi Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22 •
American justice is inhumane because the people in control are not held accountable.
unchecked power corrupts.
edit
moment of peace: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXnIyPhdDV0
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u/Gates9 Jul 05 '22
The police are an occupying force that views the citizens as opposition.
Then on the other hand we got nutcases shooting people left and right and the cops donāt do shit about it, even when children are being murdered right in front of them.
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u/lysion59 Jul 05 '22
I'm pretty sure I saw two different posts with an article sources saying court has upheld that cops are not required to protect citizens. The other is that cops are not required to know the law to enforce it.
Welcome to dystopia.
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u/TheOGClyde Jul 05 '22
Yes there are multiple court cases affirming that cops have no duty whatsoever to protect citizens. They are strictly armed agents of the state and that is it. Their duty is to make arrests for the state at their own discretion of course.
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u/No-Pomegranate-5737 Jul 05 '22
They also did that to me. Sent me to jail in my underwear, thatās one of their go-tos.
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u/Gina_the_Alien Jul 05 '22
Another sent-to-jail in underwear individual checking in here. Told the cop I wasnāt answering any questions without a lawyer and damn did that piss him off.
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u/Steelrules75 Jul 05 '22
Meanwhile, the Highland Park suspect is treated with kid glove
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u/gravypoptarts Jul 05 '22
aclu_criticizes_taylor_police
Dunno why these got inverted. Use this link - https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html
Alt Source 2 - https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-michigan-files-complaint-us-department-justice-urging-federal-agency-investigate
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u/broohaha Jul 05 '22
https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html
Reading that article there's this paragraph that confuses me:
The ACLU acknowledged the officer was correct that Jones is obligated to present his driver's license upon request and without explanation during a traffic stop, but contends the officer could have handled the situation without escalating tensions.
So, under what circumstances are you not obligated to present a driver's license during a traffic stop?
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u/hootorama Jul 05 '22
If it's for a traffic stop, you are obligated to give your license. If you're walking down the street, it is my understanding that you don't have to give your ID. IANAL.
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u/NinjaDreamMountain Jul 05 '22
That varies by state. Some states have stop and id laws. Here is a list of which states have them. Bear in mind that in all states cops have to have a reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime has or is about to be committed to ask for id.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/stop-and-id-states
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u/liamemsa Jul 05 '22
If you are operating a motor vehicle in the US, you are required to present a valid driver's license if asked to show that you are authorized to operate a motor vehicle.
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u/The-Devilz-Advocate Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
You are obligated to give your license as ruled by the Supreme Court. They are also not obligated to say why they pulled you over.
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u/boozing_again Jul 05 '22
That varies by state. In my state the law is that police have to tell you why you're being pulled over. You have to present ID and tell them why you're driving at that time. This is only if you've been observed committing a crime.
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u/BongLeardDongLick Jul 05 '22
Yeah if youāre driving a car you have to identify yourself to prove youāre legally able to operate the vehicle.
Driver should have shown his ID but this officer also completely blew this simple situation out of proportion. Literally all the officer had to say was āI have to confirm youāre legally able to operate this vehicle so please show me your drivers license and we can proceed from there.ā Instead of refusing to tell the guy why he was being pulled over or why he needed his DL. The officer just wanted to flex his authority on him and make him do it āhis wayā instead of you know, treating the driver like a human being.
If youāre ever just walking around in public youāre under no obligation to identify yourself to officers unless youāre caught in the act of a crime that requires a citation. Iāve had cops randomly stop me while walking multiple times and demand that show my ID. Every time I let them know that Iām under no obligation to provide it for them unless Iām under arrest and they state that specifically. I then ask if Iām under arrest and when they say no I ask if Iām free to go and if they say no then I ask them why Iām being detained and unless they specifically state Iām being charged with a crime I refuse to show them my ID. The key is to remain assertive but polite. Yes sir, no sir answers and respectfully decline to answer any questions because since youāre not under arrest you have no obligation to speak with them and even when you are under arrest your only answer to an officer should be āI would like a lawyer, please.ā
Never answer any police questions without a lawyer present, especially if theyāre investigating a crime EVEN if you know for a fact that youāre 100% innocent. Officers can lie to you and will try to get you to admit fault. Refuse to speak to them without a lawyer present as it is the best way you can protect yourself from them.
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u/deepayes Jul 05 '22
So, under what circumstances are you not obligated to present a driver's license during a traffic stop?
none.
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u/goerila Jul 05 '22
New reddit does that to links. It breaks for users of old.reddit
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u/gravypoptarts Jul 05 '22
Ahh, switched to the new style and both links work. Gross. Thank you for the info!!
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u/MysticalKittyHerder Jul 05 '22
Dunno why these got inverted. Use this link - https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html
It's people posting from the NEW reddit. it adds weird characters to the URL
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u/waitonemoment Jul 05 '22
HES GOT A GUN!
Dog, I am unbuckling my seat belt so you don't suffocate me while dragging me through a broken window.
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u/call_me_jelli Jul 05 '22
Of course theyāre investigating themselves, and of course theyāre going to say they did nothing wrong. Of course.
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u/dmitjuice Jul 05 '22
They probably already did, this happened in 2016, but the investigation thing in 2017.
We're in 2022, I'm sure everyone in this thread would be interested in knowing what came out of that situation. I couldn't find a proper article.
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u/Freckled_daywalker Jul 05 '22
In August 2017, the internal affairs complaint concluded with no finding of fault on the part of the officers, but the department revised its policies to require its police officers to advise all drivers they pull over of the basis for the stop.Ā In addition, the department has instituted mandatory officer training on appropriate demeanor during a traffic stop and how to avoid confrontational situations.Ā
But in 2021 the ACLU requested a federal probe into the department's practices, citing a pattern of excessive force, with this incident being part of that pattern.
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u/gravypoptarts Jul 05 '22 •
Hijacking top comment with more info
https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html
Alt Source 2 - https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-michigan-files-complaint-us-department-justice-urging-federal-agency-investigate
Also here's a HD full clip with 7+ mins of footage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbBFaWzMHAQ
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u/4-stars Jul 05 '22
yeah we need to know whether the cop got 2 weeks paid leave or the full month
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u/stimmedervernunft Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 07 '22
This is even lawful in Germany and I guess most of Europe. Police can stop you for any or no reason and ask for papers. But it's unlikely it ends like this.
Edit**some replies confusing ID checks on the street and traffic/road checks (mostly involving vehicles) Video clearly shows the later. According to German law it means anytime, anywhere, without cause.
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u/catsby90bbn Jul 05 '22
Interesting to use the word papers (from my native English speaking point of view). It varies state by state but where I live if you are just walking down the street you canāt be stopped and asked to show idea unless you are suspected of a crime.
Now if you are driving and get stopped - yeah you gotta show a drivers license no matter what.
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u/DeutschePizza Jul 05 '22
In almost all of Europe you can be stopped for a random control and you have to comply. Having an ID on you is mandatory in some countries and in some other not. Should you not have an ID they might ask for your generalities and to bring an ID back later but this almost never happens at least in Italy and Germany where I lived
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u/SgtLogri Jul 05 '22
For Germany I can say that thatās not true. If you are on foot, the police cannot stop you for no reason. Also they can only stop you at places where there can be a danger for the public like train stations or places that are known for dealing drugs.
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u/Hens1i Jul 06 '22
The cop ran his tag and he had two warrants and a gun strapped to his leg, so the cop didnāt want him knowing heās aware of the warrants because heād start a chase. The guy just wanted to stall because if he gave him his license heād go to prison.
He had a gun and warrants and wouldnāt ID himself or get out after he was IDād. He knew what cards he was playing.
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u/red180s Jul 05 '22
Police are pretty tough when 4 on one for a traffic stop.... now if it's 20 on 1 where a person is in a school threatening children they all get T-Rex arms...
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u/tim_the_enchanter2 Jul 05 '22
That Uvalde shit was pretty FUBAR and that chief should go to jail
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u/MagikSkyDaddy Jul 05 '22
Every Uvalde cop and city council member should be in Federal detainment until the actual truth is revealed.
The entire town is rotten to the core. There's no fixing what is broken beyond repair.
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u/BrewerBeer Jul 05 '22
Just imagine Mississippi Burning without the Feds showing up. That's what were regressing to. Give another 4 years to any conservative politician and it will get worse.
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u/tim_the_enchanter2 Jul 05 '22
Innocent until proven guilty, but I think the chief has pretty much been proven guilty of criminal negligence
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u/sapunec7854 Jul 05 '22 •
Please, the vicious abuse and inhuman vitriol being spewed at the police officers defending the children in Uvalde needs to stop.
You civilians need to understand that the officers couldn't simply barge in guns blazing as there were legitimate issues preventing this
More specifically - they were pissing themselves so hard their pink panties were chafing them and they were shitting themselves to such an extent their pikachu butt plugs came loose
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u/Love_God551 Jul 05 '22
I like the T - Rex comment but I was thinking what gets smol on them is a bit lower like right below their belt buckle
Bunch of COWARDS and BULLIES
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u/CMDR_BunBun
Jul 05 '22
edited Jul 05 '22
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As some have mentioned here, some states require you to present your Driver's license upon request by an officer. Know your state laws folks, some are pretty draconian.
Edit 1# Since some of you want to debate the finer points of the constitutional law... Yes, in order to effect a traffic stop the officer must have at least REASONABLE SUSPICION. Reasonable suspicion is LESS than PROBABLE CAUSE.
Edit 2 # Deleted the statement "Yes, they can pull you over just to look at you driver's license".
Case law:
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u/watsUPgrandma Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
As far as Iām aware, they canāt just pull you over to look at your license, they need reason to believe a crime is being committed.
Still tho, they donāt need to tell you what that reason is and if youāre driving a vehicle in any state (I think any state, not 100% sure) that you need to provide a license or a name, date of birth, license number if you have it memorized, when asked due to the fact that you are behind the wheel of a vehicle.
Edit: not defending the actions in this video, just stating my minimal understanding of the law, I could be totally incorrect as I am just an idiot on the internet.
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u/jango924 Jul 05 '22
The ACLU acknowledged the officer was correct that Jones is obligated to present his driver's license upon request and without explanation during a traffic stop, but contends the officer could have handled the situation without escalating tensions.
From a link i saw in the comments.
https://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/2017/05/aclu_criticizes_taylor_police.html
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u/UncoolSlicedBread Jul 05 '22 •
The escalation is always there. I remember in college when studying criminology and we had a guest speaker talk about deescalation. He was talking about how much easier it was to reason with people, even if they were guilty of something, by laying out all of the facts.
How hard would it have been to say, āI see that youāre feeling uneasy, Iām investigating what I think is a crime and itās local/state law that you have to present your ID when requested during a stop.ā
He even could say his name and badge number to the guy.
Instead itās immediately as if heās talking down to someone, āDo you want this the hard way or the easy way?ā āThis isnāt going to go well for you.ā Only adding to the confusion and likelihood that the driver will do something out of fear of the unknown.
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u/s_string Jul 05 '22
Immediately when he refuses to say why besides saying how happy he would be to tell him makes me think it is just profiling. There is no value for the officer to withhold that information whereas for the driver sharing his information not only opens him to an unwarranted background search but also puts him further at the mercy of this psychotic individual.
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u/RememberedOldBuddy Jul 05 '22
The driver could have de-escalated the situation by listening to the other person inside and just handed over the license.
It's not the sole responsibility of the police to de-escalate situations. Nobody has a protected right to be upset or emotional or uncooperative when dealing with law enforcement, so people need to quit acting like it's all on the police to control how interactions are conducted.
Seriously, it's not that hard to stay out of jail or out of trouble in general, yet people act like police in the US will throw you in jail or shoot you for just looking at them the wrong way.
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u/newf68 Jul 05 '22
They a need a reason to pull you over yes but asking for id, regardless of reasoning is a lawful order you must comply with. Even if you plead the fifth you have to say so and you still have to identify if asked.
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u/Pharoahs_Horses Jul 05 '22
I wonder if any cops who are in reddit watch this and still wonder why there is so much resentment from the public
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u/NE_African_Mole-rat Jul 05 '22
They always need more context and, even with context, will most always defend cops who kill as "following their training"
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u/Running1982 Jul 05 '22
Following their 6 months of training. Ftfy.
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Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 06 '22
[deleted]
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u/CanEveryoneJustSTFU Jul 05 '22
Shitty electrical work gets people killed. Don't sell yourself short.
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u/MILLANDSON Jul 05 '22
Also, electricians are more likely to be killed on the job than police, so unironically, thank you for your service u/the-original-chad.
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u/TacticalSanta Jul 05 '22
The Thin Copper Line *salutes*
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u/Aegislash Jul 05 '22
Now this is a current trend I can get behind!
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u/LaikasDad Jul 05 '22
You know, electricians are only paid for the protection of the electricity, not the appliances.
/s but there's a metaphor in there somewhere...
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u/jollyreaper2112 Jul 05 '22
Shitty electrical work gets people killed. Don't sell yourself short.
Better yet, don't let yourself become a short.
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u/ghostalker4742 Jul 05 '22
My barber has more training to cut peoples hair
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u/Three-OneLmao Jul 05 '22
Also I love that the name is Protect and Serve when they went to court to fight that they are not obligated to protect and serve
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u/thesamebs Jul 05 '22
That slogan is correct. Just not complete like most of their sayings. They're here to protect and serve property and rich people. Just like they leave off the end of the saying about one bad apple
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u/Ghostofchestypuller Jul 05 '22
Almost got obliterated in a crosswalk the other day by a protector and server. I had to stop and step back quickly as he screeched to a halt in front of me. He definitely would have broken my leg at the very least, and when I threw my hands up to say what the fuck he just stared at me like I was the one in the wrong. All while the crosswalk indicator was plainly saying to walk.
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u/sapo148 Jul 05 '22
damn, can we sue for false advertisement, because thatās false advertisement if Iāve ever seen it.
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u/stackered Jul 05 '22
they should require at least 2 years learning the law, 2 years of grappling and de-escalation training, then they should be given a provisional badge and allowed to ride along with a taser. after a year or so of ride along they should be given their gun after extensive on the job and gun training. so after 5-6 years they should be a full on cop, well trained and still in tip top shape (cops that fail physical or mental requirements yearly would be sent back to training)
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u/FUNKYDISCO Jul 05 '22
Guys who barely make it out of high school arenāt going to go through all of that!!! So I guess itās a good idea.
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u/stackered Jul 05 '22
Yup, they shouldn't be cops if they can't buckle down and work a little to earn the right to enforce our laws
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u/ThinkIcouldTakeHim Jul 05 '22
Grappling training is also the perfect tool to spot fragile egos and can even massage the ego problems out of some.
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u/donat28 Jul 05 '22
To me thatās the most insane shitā¦
If your training resulted in this shit showā¦we need to fix the training!
It seems like āfollowing their trainingā is a sufficient end result in this country.
Imagine if a doctor who amputated the wrong arm could just go āwas just following their trainingā and nothing happensā¦he gets to mutilate another patient.
Just crazy. And I support cops. I think itās a tough job dealing with crazy shit all day, in a country full of crazy people armed to the teethā¦but thatās why proper training is even more important!
I donāt give a shit if you are a cop, soldier or a dishwasherā¦if you arenāt trained properly, you are gonna fuck shit up.
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u/SN0WFAKER Jul 05 '22
If a doctor amputates the wrong arm they get sued and their malpractice insurance pays but the premiums go up, possibly to untenable levels so they can't practice.
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u/donat28 Jul 05 '22
Malpractice insurance is definitely a reasonable solution. Also paying settlements out of police union funds or their own retirement fund or something instead of us tax payers paying it.
Lots of potential solutionsā¦yet we wonāt do shit š¤·š¼āāļø
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u/LordCaptain Jul 05 '22
Protect and serve is a blight. Got banned from there for posting on different subreddits that I was a peace officer (because I didn't send them verification). They are everything that's wrong with law enforcement. Defending every shitty officer when they should be feeling betrayed and let down and condemning them. I try to defend the people I'm training from people like them. The problem is they're everywhere and totally unaware that they are part of the systemic problem.
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u/prestonschool Jul 05 '22
Cops are not on reddit, they are on 4chan
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u/helloween111 Jul 05 '22
Also a fuck load on TikTok
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u/vegangbanger Jul 05 '22
that's where they can most effectively creep on underage girls
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u/lego_vader Jul 05 '22
hey but they can make a friendly video about skateboarding with kids so it's all good right?
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u/The_Void_Reaver Jul 05 '22
Here's some pictures of Cops kneeling with protestors. Please share them without mentioning how they started beating peaceful protesters 30 seconds later.
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u/MasPike101 Jul 05 '22
Go to the sub r/protectandserve. It's pretty crazy
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u/BilboMcDoogle Jul 05 '22
Don't even have to scroll past a full day to see them admit to blatantly lying about everything
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u/ilovefreshproduce Jul 05 '22
Sheeshā¦ yeah this was the top post when I clicked over there, somebody asking what the solution is to all this overreaching and all the comments so far just ask for examples and definitions of āoverreachingā like for fucks sake man are we still dealing with the semantics of this?
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u/nostromo909 Jul 05 '22 •
Iām proud to say I was permanently banned from r/protectandserve for asking too many difficult questions.
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u/slugo17 Jul 05 '22
I was banned after they kept using the metal door frame at uvalde as an excuse to the police inaction. Come to find out the fucking door wasnāt even locked.
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u/Moistened_Bink Jul 05 '22
Yeah I was getting downvoted a lot for asking questions about Uvalde when it happened, and I yielded that it was too early on to truly know how things went down. Turns out though it was in fact mostly due to police incompetence that it took them an hour to end the situation
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u/GR8dantini Jul 05 '22
Not mostly. Completely due to police incompetence. They literally did nothing right and then tried to lie about every single detail of what happened. Theyāre still actively covering it up. Canāt wait to find out how many kids or teachers the cops shot before not stopping the shooter. Such rampant bullshit. Every cop should be accountable to the citizenry as opposed to how they have it now. Weāre accountable to them. If people, especially boot lickers and badge bunnies donāt start demanding it, itāll be you next.
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u/spelingexpurt Jul 05 '22
I replied to someone commenting on a post in that sub about saying some shit about how all mainstream media is a echo chamber for the left Asking him what exactly he thinks this sub is Needless to say i am also permanently banned from that sub
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u/ScottishTorment Jul 05 '22
I got banned for pointing out why someone might be worried about the behavior of a cop when an instance of police brutality was posted there and everyone was falling over themselves justifying it.
o7
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u/BlackHawksHockey Jul 05 '22
I just got banned followed by immediately being muted so I canāt even ask what exactly I said that was bannable.
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u/Y0ungTree Jul 05 '22
Haha same. Mine was "for clarification, was he doing anything illegal when they got into his apartment and killed him?"
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u/charliequeue Jul 05 '22
Lmao, I also got banned within the span of 5 minutes for the same.
Guess they donāt like accountability questions.
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u/Nihilist_Nautilus Jul 05 '22
5 minutes and I got banned. Such cowards. I wanted to link a video of cops being nuts but they donāt allow cross posts
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u/charliequeue Jul 05 '22
They just really want their echo chamber to remain positive, I guess
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u/BelDeMoose Jul 05 '22
Terrifying the amount of racism that is upvoted on a police sub. America is in a very worrying state.
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u/April_Fabb Jul 05 '22
Is it like r/sino for pro-CCP drones and r/conservative for MAGA smoothbrains?
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u/Bowldoza Jul 05 '22
You're acting like the Venn diagram of users for /r/conservative and /r/protectandserve isn't a single, large circle
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u/Dragonbreadth Jul 05 '22
No. They are in the circle jerk known as r/protectandserve
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u/not_a_scrub_ Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
I'm a police officer in Texas. The cop really fucked this traffic stop up. Sure, the driver didn't want to immediately cooperate, but he's within his rights to ask why he's being stopped. If I can't clearly articulate to someone why I pulled them over, they should not have been pulled over in the first place.
In Texas, DPS requires the 7-step traffic stop be taught to police in the academy, and anyone taking driver's ed. Having the general public also know the steps is VERY good for accountability.
- Greeting and identification of the agency.
- Statement of violation committed.
- Identification of driver and check of conditions of violator and vehicle.
- Statement of action to be taken.
- Take action stated.
- Explain what violator must do.
- Leave.
Clearly stating the reason for a traffic stop protects both the officer and the person being stopped. This officer would have saved a lot of trouble for everyone involved if he had answered this man's simple, rightful question. Instead, this poor man probably has an arrest on his record for "failure to ID" (which is a whole other thing I see other cops fuck up all the time) when likely the real reason he got arrested for is what we call P.O.P. or Pissed Off Police.
Edit: Someone else mentioned that the stop was probably a pretextual stop. Pretextual stops are legal and protected under Whren V. State. They are most commonly used to investigate DWI's. However, even with a pretextual stop, we should always state the reason for the stop. Something along the lines of "Sir, the reason you were stopped is you failed to signal your turn at that last intersection. I've also seen some other unusual behavior in your driving." And then go into questions that would help determine if they're intoxicated. There is never a good reason to escalate a situation like this instead of just telling them why they were stopped.
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u/zamundan Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22
My understanding is those 7 steps are a policy guideline, not a law. By law, the officer is not required to say the reason for the stop. And in some cases (if it isnāt just a simple traffic violation) they wouldnāt want to describe the actual reason.
When you say the driver is āwithin his rights to askā, it sounds like youāre implying he doesnāt have to ID until heās told. Fairly sure thatās not true. (But obviously I canāt point you to the law that doesnāt exist based on the right he doesnāt have because thatās not how laws work.)
Also, the officer can legally command him out of the vehicle during the stop.
The main problem I see is just the officer went from giving lawful instructions straight to smashing the guyās window. Likeā¦ at least let one of the other officers have a chance at reasoning with the guy. Or make it more clear to the driver that not getting out will result in a forceful arrest. My impression is the cop just went full toddler mode because the guy kept refusing to listen to him, and essentially threw an arrest tantrum. But technically the cop didnāt do anything illegal. He just jumped 6 levels of escalation in a blink without needing to because heās not used to being told ānoā.
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u/LordBilboSwaggins Jul 05 '22
Go to r/police. You get the impression that they inevitably see oversteps as isolated incidents with no greater trend to be seen. A huge "why is everyone so worked up? I feel fine!" Vibe.
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u/lolno Jul 05 '22
One of first posts I saw was a rant about people lacking basic human decency
You can't make this shit up lmao
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u/CaptHowdy02 Jul 05 '22
That requires self awareness and a moral compass. My understanding is they hire people who lack those qualities.
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u/OutdoorJimmyRustler Jul 05 '22
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you legally have to comply with getting out of the car if asked by an officer, right?
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u/MarzipanFinal1756 Jul 05 '22
Maybe I'm mistaken but I'm pretty sure you are obligated to show your ID if an officer requests it while operating a vehicle on public roads.
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u/RandomCriss Jul 05 '22
He has to give him his license at least since it's a traffic stop. Then he can fight bs charges if he thinks it.
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u/Malaki202
Jul 05 '22
edited Jul 05 '22
•
This is what happens when you DONT know your rights. The Supreme Court has already ruled that during a traffic stop you HAVE TO provide your license. They have also already ruled that cops do NOT need to explain why they pulled you over. The only time they need to explain reasonable suspicion or probable cause is in court to a judge. Knowing what you are required to do when interacting with cops is just as important as knowing your rights.
Now that being said the cops could have just said go ahead and google these things on your phone then I'm going to ask you to comply 1 more time. That would have de-escalated the situation rather than just resorting to physical force all the time.
Edit: I would like to clarify because some people think I'm siding with the cop. I think the cop is an asshole who shouldn't have done what he did. But I also do not believe it's victim blaming to say the driver of the vehicle should educate himself on what he is required to do by law not just his rights. It is important to know both so for instance you don't get ripped out of your car by some asshole cop on a power trip.
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u/Flyers_1995 Jul 05 '22 •
The cop also could have de-escalated the situation by simply telling him why he was pulled over. Every time Iāve ever been pulled over, the police officer has immediately told me why Iām stopped.
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u/henstocker Jul 05 '22
It definitely raises the question of whether he actually had a valid reason to pull him over in the first place.
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u/thats_basic_ok Jul 05 '22 •
What actually happened is they pulled over a black guy to check his ID and see if there was anything they could arrest him for.
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Jul 05 '22
The cop admitted that too. He said, āyouāre probably suspended which is why you donāt want to give it to me.ā Probably just assumed that cuz heās black.
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u/oddmanout Jul 05 '22
They can run plates and see who the car is registered to, and also see if that person has an expired license.
Technically, that counts as probable cause and has been upheld by the courts, which is fucking stupid, because if you're a teenager driving your dad's car, and his license was suspended, you're going to get pulled over all the damn time; or if your spouse's license was suspended, or any other number of reasons.
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u/xGIJOSEx Jul 05 '22
Just want to add on that by running your plates they can also see that you have insurance. Happened to me one time I got stopped in Texas. Cop said he already knew I had insurance so all I needed to show was my license.
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u/ststaro Jul 05 '22
Been the Law in TX for a while now.. No. Need to show proof as Insurance companies are required to update the state
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u/JanGuillosThrowaway Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
"As far as I know, you could be trying to kill me right now"
"That's ridicolous"
Proceeds to break the car down, drag him out and sit on him
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u/Newtewthis213 Jul 05 '22
Thatās the thing this cop didnāt, he was making stuff up as he went. You can hear him say āyou probably have suspended licenseā you wouldnāt know that until you run the info or if you were profiling and guessing.
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u/StopherDBF Jul 05 '22
You can hear him say itās an investigatory stop. If the dude had run the stop sign, it would be for a moving violation ā not for his ad libbed bs
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u/Pashto96 Jul 05 '22
Absolutely. We were trained to say "my name is officer so-and-so and I pulled you over because of xyz. License and registration please." There is zero need to hide that information. Hiding it will only escalate the situation.
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u/Solace2010 Jul 05 '22
Itās about power and ego.
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u/soymrdannal Jul 05 '22
Agreed with this. Used to date a police officer. āIāve pulled you over because of xyz, licence and registration, please.ā Obviously this wasnāt America, but surely the principles are the same? My rear lights are out? āThatās why Iām driving it to a garage, officer.ā Power and ego is all I saw here. And as much as Iām likely to be downvoted - please donāt get me wrong, the cop is in the wrong here, all he had to do was explain why heās pulled them overā¦ - just show your licence. But in my country you have to be told why youāre being stopped, and especially arrested. This isnāt a fascist hellhole. Yet.
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u/Wyevez Jul 05 '22
To a non-American, it's incredible to see how quickly their police get violent and aggressive.
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u/McGuirk808 Jul 05 '22
For some reason, the training seems to consist of learning to escalate situations until somebody dies.
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u/boxinafox Jul 05 '22
Escalate until someone dies, get paid vacation, have tax payers fund the lost lawsuit, rinse repeat.
With this cycle, why would cops change a GD thing?
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u/das-hogfather Jul 05 '22
Police over here in the UK are basically tax funded babysitters for drunks. They're hilariously good at de escalation. At least where I live
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u/ztimulating Jul 05 '22
Required by law to show drivers license to law enforcement when asked when operating a vehicle on public road. I am guessing in this case driver confused articulatable suspicion with driving. They are not the same. Driving is a privilege not a right
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u/Sarcastic24-7 Jul 05 '22
Things to know:
- Calvin here ran a stop sign and was pulled over.
- This was in Michigan where it is required to show your ID when an officer requests it.
He committed a minor offense, then committed another which can result in an arrest, then resisted arrest adding to the escalating situation. The officer could have told him at the start why he pulled him over, and Calvin could have at any point done what the officer asked of him. It honestly isnāt difficult for either party to provide information and saves a lot of problems.
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Jul 05 '22
edited Jul 06 '22
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[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/AvoidsResponsibility Jul 05 '22
Yeah. I don't get it. The cops can't just let people drive off. It is what it is, but this particular video doesn't really get my cop-hate flowing.
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u/myworkaccount9 Jul 05 '22
āThe ACLU acknowledged the officer was correct that Jones is obligated to present his driver's license upon request and without explanation during a traffic stop, ā
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u/Interesting_Total_98 Jul 05 '22
...but contends the officer could have handled the situation without escalating tensions.
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Upon arrival to the jail, Jones said he was ordered to remove all of his clothes, except for his underwear, and forced to lie face down in a cold holding cell before being booked into the jail.
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u/mistamasta254 Jul 05 '22
It's good to know the law. For example, if you were walking down the street and a cop asked you for your ID, you don't have to identify. But operating a motor vehicle on a public road... You have to identify. Both could have done more to help this situation out.
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u/nicobeporcodio Jul 05 '22
I am assuming this is USA. I am from Europe...here if a cop asks you to show the ID you show the ID no question asked. Here it is very normal to just do what they ask and...might be just by chance...but here incident with the police are very low compared to the USA. If you start acting like you don 't want to cooperate it is very likely that the situation escalate...here simply we don't take that chance and it is working out pretty well. Honest question: why do I see very often a non compliant behavior towars the police in the USA? Is there any reason ?
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u/jesse6713 Jul 05 '22
You have to know where your rights stop and start. You better be right if youāre going to make a stand. You canāt half-ass know the law and also try to dictate it to a LEO.
His family is traumatized. Heās got charges on his record. Heās going to have to pay insane fees. He has a broken window. His wife was arrested. He probably has impound fees.
For what? What was gained from that misinformed pissing match?
Know federal law and your Stateās laws. Talk to a lawyer if youāre confused. Otherwise, you risk BOTH having your rights violated and hurting yourself when they arenāt being violated.
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u/ConditionYellow
Jul 05 '22
•
Former cop here. This shit right here is not only unprofessional, it's unsafe.
On traffic stops, I always opened with "Hello, I'm Ofc ConditionYellow of the Soandso Police Dept. The reasoned I stopped you today is speeding. You were observed doing 60 in a 35mph zone. May I see your driver's license, please?"
That way, if the offended just kicked off a 7 state bank robbing spree, he knows I'm not about to get into a gun fight. So he can sign his ticket and go about his day.
But if I didn't tell them why I stopped, they may assume the worst and open fire before I make it up to their car.
Cops that do this shit are, if nothing else, a liability and therefore have no business wearing a badge.
Yeah. There's a reason I don't do this any longer.
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u/azarashi Jul 05 '22
Its also simple de-escalation, be polite tell them who you are and why they are being stopped and collect information. While the drive should have just given his information as he is required to it was just handled so piss poor.
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u/xanplease Jul 05 '22
Yeah this cop went on a power trip. Driver should have complied but still, just seems like a massive power trip. He knew he could escalate the situation if he kept it up. Is it really so hard to tell them you stopped them for a busted light or speeding? No, but he wanted to show this guy who is in charge. Ugh.
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u/dasitmanes Jul 05 '22
That cop should have just asked for his driver's license. The guy would have asked why. The cop can then reply "because you drive like shit and I want to check you even have one."
There, deescalated. If he still refuses to show his ID then a lot less people would blame the cop here if what we saw ensued.
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u/SimplyExtremist Jul 05 '22
Exactly. Itās a power dynamic they wonāt give an inch. All he had to do was say why he pulled him over. The driver would probably have found some other thing to be annoying about but at least he tried.
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u/YourHeroIsAlive Jul 05 '22
Or the guy could have, ya know, given the officer his ID and avoided literally all of this.
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u/Royal_Cascadian Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22
Unfortunately, if youāre driving a vehicle, the state has the right to see if youāre legally allowed to, and order you out of the vehicle.
Courts have ruled consistently on this topic.
Now, you could challenge the actual stop in court, not the presenting ID on demand.
I just hope people understand the law and let the cops who donāt, get sued and fired.
r/AmIFreeToGo is dedicated to these police encounters. With excellent legal advice of what not to do and do. Which is always record everything.
I donāt think of cops being assholes as āpublic freakoutsā
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u/coffeetablesex Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 08 '22
i hate you all.
edit:
This is misinformation
final edit: well done, denizens.